What a great time of year this is. 2023 tax season is officially over, and I have almost nothing to do except for some tax planning for clients for 2024 and helping clients get out of the trouble they've made for themselves. I have been in the interim entertaining myself reading tax law and court cases.
Of course, January will be here before we know it, and it will be back into the grind again.
Alas.
Form 4549 is the discussion. Like you, the IRS operates in writing. You can contest whatever they send you, but the notice itself is the "discussion", however one-sided you believe it to be. Those are the changes discussed with you. In the form. On the paper.
You cite Sec 6201(d), but you might want to read it a little closer - "In any court proceeding... and the taxpayer has fully cooperated with the Secretary..."
Are you in court?
Have you fully cooperated with the Secretary?
I believe the answers to those two questions are self-evident.
The IRS proves income by the W-2s provided by your employer. Your employer took deductions for the wages paid to you by reporting them on the W-2. They are not entitled to a deduction for your wages if they do not report them on form W-2. The employer will happily provide the IRS with a copy if the IRS has misplaced the copy. This is unlikely now, as they have started digitizing everything. The W-2s reported by your employer are the proof of your taxable income. The tax court, should you choose to waste more of your time and money, will find your argument without merit. Just like all the others who have beat this same dead horse before you.
"Refusal to cooperate with this request..." Heh. That's a good one. You know, the IRS can raise the penalty from $5,000 to $25,000 for each instance of frivolous tax positions. I don't know that I'd make threats that were, not only impossible for me to enforce, but inapplicable to the situation.
And you think they're bluffing? They need 60 days because the next step, if you don't go to tax court, is freezing your bank accounts, garnishing your wages, including from retirement accounts, and/or slapping liens on your property. That's if they choose to continue playing on the civil side. They can charge you criminally if they get a wild hair up their ass. And they are very slow about these things. Something to look forward to I suppose. Probably sometime in 2025 or 2026.
Let's see here, how many tax years is this? Four? There's two of you. If they decide to raise the penalty because they are annoyed with the exceedingly long and convoluted letters you keep sending them that are full of non sequiturs, empty threats and accusations of felonies they didn't commit - that's (4 x 2 x 25,000) $200,000 in penalties, plus I think the interest is up to 7%, compounded daily on the amount owed including penalties, assessed back to the point in time when the tax was due. And only dischargeable in bankruptcy if you have nothing for them to take AND the bankruptcy court decides it was all in good faith.
hello t. nice to have you back. you get another post of your own in reply to a few of your points above, coming soon.
you seem to enjoy throwing out big scary numbers. but as shown on our sworn affidavit, the frivolous penalty does not apply and neither you nor the irs have ever stated what "position" they claim we have taken that is frivolous. but don't worry, we'll get to that whole frivolous nonsense in another separate post.
I was just reading Rev. proc. 2023-34 this morning. Saw the exclusion limitations on what the IRS can confiscate and I thought of you 💙
It’s $11k in property and $5k in wages. The rest they can take. Also if you owe over, I think it was $62k, they can revoke your passport. Heh.
Anyhoo, unless you plan on paying up and going to district court, failure to file in Tax Court within 90 days means you agree with their assessment of tax, penalties, and interest. You will go to tax court and pay, or you will just simply pay.
On the bright side, the tax court is super lenient on the first frivolous protest. Especially if you show that you know nothing about tax law. That shouldn’t be difficult for you. They are unlikely to raise the penalty to the maximum in those cases. They only do that if you insist on continuing with the error of your ways repeatedly.
Good afternoon Mrs. French,
What a great time of year this is. 2023 tax season is officially over, and I have almost nothing to do except for some tax planning for clients for 2024 and helping clients get out of the trouble they've made for themselves. I have been in the interim entertaining myself reading tax law and court cases.
Of course, January will be here before we know it, and it will be back into the grind again.
Alas.
Form 4549 is the discussion. Like you, the IRS operates in writing. You can contest whatever they send you, but the notice itself is the "discussion", however one-sided you believe it to be. Those are the changes discussed with you. In the form. On the paper.
You cite Sec 6201(d), but you might want to read it a little closer - "In any court proceeding... and the taxpayer has fully cooperated with the Secretary..."
Are you in court?
Have you fully cooperated with the Secretary?
I believe the answers to those two questions are self-evident.
The IRS proves income by the W-2s provided by your employer. Your employer took deductions for the wages paid to you by reporting them on the W-2. They are not entitled to a deduction for your wages if they do not report them on form W-2. The employer will happily provide the IRS with a copy if the IRS has misplaced the copy. This is unlikely now, as they have started digitizing everything. The W-2s reported by your employer are the proof of your taxable income. The tax court, should you choose to waste more of your time and money, will find your argument without merit. Just like all the others who have beat this same dead horse before you.
"Refusal to cooperate with this request..." Heh. That's a good one. You know, the IRS can raise the penalty from $5,000 to $25,000 for each instance of frivolous tax positions. I don't know that I'd make threats that were, not only impossible for me to enforce, but inapplicable to the situation.
And you think they're bluffing? They need 60 days because the next step, if you don't go to tax court, is freezing your bank accounts, garnishing your wages, including from retirement accounts, and/or slapping liens on your property. That's if they choose to continue playing on the civil side. They can charge you criminally if they get a wild hair up their ass. And they are very slow about these things. Something to look forward to I suppose. Probably sometime in 2025 or 2026.
Let's see here, how many tax years is this? Four? There's two of you. If they decide to raise the penalty because they are annoyed with the exceedingly long and convoluted letters you keep sending them that are full of non sequiturs, empty threats and accusations of felonies they didn't commit - that's (4 x 2 x 25,000) $200,000 in penalties, plus I think the interest is up to 7%, compounded daily on the amount owed including penalties, assessed back to the point in time when the tax was due. And only dischargeable in bankruptcy if you have nothing for them to take AND the bankruptcy court decides it was all in good faith.
Well as they say...
FAFO.
hello t. nice to have you back. you get another post of your own in reply to a few of your points above, coming soon.
you seem to enjoy throwing out big scary numbers. but as shown on our sworn affidavit, the frivolous penalty does not apply and neither you nor the irs have ever stated what "position" they claim we have taken that is frivolous. but don't worry, we'll get to that whole frivolous nonsense in another separate post.
Oh goody goody gumdrops. Can’t wait to read it.
I was just reading Rev. proc. 2023-34 this morning. Saw the exclusion limitations on what the IRS can confiscate and I thought of you 💙
It’s $11k in property and $5k in wages. The rest they can take. Also if you owe over, I think it was $62k, they can revoke your passport. Heh.
Anyhoo, unless you plan on paying up and going to district court, failure to file in Tax Court within 90 days means you agree with their assessment of tax, penalties, and interest. You will go to tax court and pay, or you will just simply pay.
On the bright side, the tax court is super lenient on the first frivolous protest. Especially if you show that you know nothing about tax law. That shouldn’t be difficult for you. They are unlikely to raise the penalty to the maximum in those cases. They only do that if you insist on continuing with the error of your ways repeatedly.